<P>－－－－－－－－－－－－－－</P>
<P>照你的观点，像Lambiel这种3A有明显缺陷的是不是也该狠狠拍砖……</P> <P>怎么聊着K/S又扯到Jeff,照LZ观点,仿佛非要把TES和PCS搞出点必然的因果关系~</P>
<P>Jeff的节目即使没有跳跃相信PCS仍然也会维持这水准,就像楼上几个筒子说的,Jeff无论是滑行技术还有编排等各方面都是很出色很用心的选手,跳跃方面确实非他强项,但也没有你所说的如此不堪,况且他有其他技术环节的优势来弥补,现在这些选手里面Jeff的高PCS是拿得最实在的~</P>
<P>如果简单就把jump定为衡量一个选手是否talented的标准,那未免也太肤浅...</P>
<P>还有看了下这个帖子总感觉LZ非要通过贬别人来褒你心仪的选手,自己喜欢的无限扩大优点,自己看不上眼的就拼命乱扣帽子.....你自己喜欢怎样无可厚非,本来就各花入各眼,但关键是要言之有据吧,实在没必要只盯着一项技术来说事~</P>
中国队未来新对手Kawaguchi & Smirnov 访谈录
<P>我们大家已经知道俄罗斯又产生了一对很有希望的双人滑选手-Kawaguchi & Smirnov。我预测他们很有可能对Zhang/zhang, Pang/Tong在未来几年中够成重大威胁。我特意从FSU摘选了一篇K&S访谈的翻译文章，供大家了解他们的情况。那位翻译能力强的，可以将其翻成中文。请大家注意，这一对选手的跳跃能力及稳定性极强。看来他们是要上四周跳的了! ZHANG/ZHANG 这一赛季状态欠佳，跳跃能力下降，似乎有吃老本之嫌。不要以为 TT/MM 以及 ZHAO/SHEN 退役后就无人竞争了。这不一下冒出了个 K&S， TT&MM也再考虑复出。</P><P>The performance by Russian-Japanese team of Yuko Kawaguchi/Alexander Smirnov was one of the spotlights of the Cup of Russia. Making their debut at such well-represented event, the new students of legendary Tamara Moskvina not only won the bronze, but amazed everyone with the unusual lightness and how clean their elements were. After the competition was over, Yuko, 24, who answered without a translator, and Alexander, 22, talked to Novye Izvestia about their unusual team and their plans for the future.<BR><BR>- I think you were welcomed as warmly as Maria Petrova/Alexei Tikhonov. Did you expect to make so much noise?<BR><BR>Alexaner: No. We focused for mistake-free performance, but we just wanted to feel the ice and see how fans and judges would welcome us.<BR><BR>Yuko: I was very worried. I thought mabye the fans wouldn't like that I'm a Japanese representing Russia. We were so well welcomed! This support helped me a lot. I'm glad.<BR><BR>- Whose idea was it to create such a beautiful and unusual team?<BR><BR>Alexander: Nikolai Velikov's. He trained me with a different partner. He, Ludmila Velikova, and Alexander Stepin choreographed the programs that everyone liked so much. I would like to thanks them again. Tamara Moskvina started working with us later and she only highlighted some things in both programs and pointed to little mistakes.<BR><BR>- Yuko represented Japan with another St. Petersburg skater, Alexander Markuntsova several years ago. They were 13th at the Worlds, but their relationship didn't work out. Is teaming up with a foreigner not for everyone? <BR><BR>Alexander: Yuko and I have skated at the same rink for three years. She either trained with her new American partner or she trained alone. All of us got used to her. I saw her learn difficult elements with Devin Patrick. We'll also work on one of them, a quad throw, soon. Still, I didn't have the feeling we were the perfect match at first. Then, my mom came to the rink and said that this girl looks very good, she is very nice, and my mom thought she was modest and hard-working. It turned out to be just like that. So, I felt more confident after that and soon I knew I don't want to change partners anymore.<BR><BR>Yuko: Me too.<BR><BR>- Even the most well-matched champion teams argue in practice sometimes!<BR><BR>Yuko: We've been skating together for six months and we haven't argued once. Sasha knows it's pointless because I don't know any bad Russian words, I didn't learn them. Thanks God. My old partners were good too, but he is the best!<BR><BR>- Do you spend your free time together?<BR><BR>Yuko: No, Sasha graduated from college, and I run to the University after the morning practice. I'm a third year student, majoring in international relationships. After the evening practice, I go home right away, to the computer, do the papers.<BR><BR>- Yuko, how did you end-up in St. Petersburg?<BR><BR>Yuko: I was 16 during the Nagano Olympics. I saw Lena Berezhnaya and Anton Sikharulidze and sent fax to Tamara Moskvina saying I wanted to train with her and be like Lena. I came and took lessons skating singles, and then they found me a partner. So I staid in Russia. I live alone in St. Petersburg, renting an apartment.<BR><BR>- How did you parents let you go so far away?<BR><BR>Yuko: My mom is the English teacher, my dad is the businessman. They knew that figure skating is very important to me and that's what I love the most in my life. They are very glad that I perform now. I am not a Russian citizen but I have ISU permit to represent Russia because my partner is Russian. What wi
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<P>另外一片关于 YUKA KAWAGUCHI 的文章。看的出来这是一位吃尽苦头，意志力极顽强的选手。</P><DIV>The interview was taken before the coaching change (she and Smirnov went back to Moskvina recently)<BR><BR><a href="http://www.vseved.pisem.net/2006/kavaguchi.htm" target="_blank" ><FONT color=#22229c>http://www.vseved.pisem.net/2006/kavaguchi.htm</FONT></A><BR><BR>The Eastern Wind<BR><BR>Russian figure skating is a special sport. Our masters are well taught and have such a reputation that they are regularly added to other countries' National teams. Moscovite Maxim Staviski won the World title in ice dance this year representing Bulgaria. Marina Anisina, daughter of famous Soviet hockey player, became the Olympic champion in SLC, under the French flag. Former World champion in pairs Alexei Tikhonov successfully represented Japan for several years. There were never any movement in the opposite direction, with the exception of "family helpings" from former Soviet countries. Then it happened - Japanese skater <STRONG><FONT color=#ff0000>Yuko</FONT></STRONG> Kawaguchi will be representing Russia starting this season with her pair partner Alexander Smirnov from St. Petersburg. This is really sensational. We got a pretty achieved skaters under our flag. On her resume are victories and medals from the largest junior competitions, won both in singles and pairs...<BR><BR>- <STRONG><FONT color=#ff0000>Yuko</FONT></STRONG>, what led you to go under the Russian flag?<BR><BR>It all started with Elena Berezhnaya. I liked how she skated in Nagano. I was so impressed by her performance, I've sent Tamara Moskvina, who coached Lena, a fax. Something like I want to train with you very much. I didn't have a lot of hope for the answer, but I got it almost right away, "Come!"<BR><BR>The first attempt was for "singles." I went to America where Tamara Nikolaevna worked with her group and took lessons from her for two weeks. After that, I won a Jr. Grand Prix event in Mexico, and then won a medal at the next event. I performed and said, "Tamara Nikolaevna, I want to try pairs"… Another thing was that at one time, I trained at the same rink with Lesha Tikhonov when he skated for Japan with Yukiko Kawasaki. I admired him a lot! Along that, famous Russian coach Victor Ryzhkin worked with me in Tokyo for a long time. So you see how strongly I was influenced by a Russian school of skating.<BR><BR>I wanted to learn pairs from a Russian coach and possibly with Russian partner. However, at the time Tamara Nikolaevna didn't have a boy available. That's why I've spent several years skating singles until Valentina Razskazova and Alexander Markuntsov broke up. Then Tamara Nikolaevna sent me a fax - come here, there is work, and I came to her in America again.<BR><BR>It was hard for me at first. However, if I would've gone to Russia then, it would've been much harder. America became sort of an psychological buffer for me. When I moved to St. Petersburg three years ago together with Moskvins group, it was much easier to adjust.<BR><BR>- When you first came to Russia, what impressed you the most?<BR><BR>This happened in winter, three years ago and my biggest impression was "terribly cold". Of course, I was mentally preparing for that, but still it didn't feel right.<BR><BR>- Is there ever as cold in Japan?<BR><BR>Never in Tokyo, where I'm from. Even in the winter, it's never below zero. On average, it's +3 to +10. So, I almost froze in St. Petersburg, but my partner Sasha Markuntsov's parents are very warm people and they gave me such a great welcome. I liked my "introductory" visit to Russia so much.<BR><BR>- How old were you when you parents put you on the skates for the first time?<BR><BR>I was five. It's not that early - children in Japan get sent to skating when they are about that age. However, the first time I saw the skating competition was much later. I'll admit I hated skating at first. This all is my mom's influence - she made me go train. She loved the ice dance and she worshipped Pakhomova and Gorshkov. She dreamt that I'll skate like them some day.<BR <P>真是......我也承认K/S是有潜力，但有必要每次都把他们捧得那么高，外带顺便踩一下Z/Z(或是前些时候P/T)么？<o:p></o:p></P>
<P>首先，选手状况本来就会有起伏，这很正常；什么叫"吃老本"了？难道都不准选手摔的吗？即使是T巫婆/M那样像机器一样超级稳定的选手，还不是也摔过跳跃和托举？再来，K/S只比过一场大奖赛分站赛，运气好滑得算是相对干净了，谁又能保证他们以后就都不摔了？<o:p></o:p></P>
<P>只凭一场比赛就断定他们是未来的"重大威胁"、只看到他们完成了跳跃就说人家能力很强，会不会太草率了些？<o:p></o:p></P>
<P>O/S以前要线条有线条、要滑行有滑行，抛跳里安排throw 3flip、上过捻转四周、托举有创新、在规则还允许时自由滑用过三次3toe，甚至还击败过PetTik得到欧锦赛银牌，比现在K/S的难度动作跟成绩都好得多了吧？我记得那时论坛里还有筒子宣称O/S会在2006年以后"一统天下"，有更多的筒子认为他们将来会比Z/Z强，结果呢？<o:p></o:p></P>
<P>总之，个人认为K/S现在看起来是有希望，可那不过就是现下俄罗斯双人滑太差(PetTik除外)的结果；所以只要一出现滑得相对干净、节目风格也不会太boring的选手，就觉得他们很强了；要是以前G/G、M/D、B/S这样的选手还在，甚至是T巫婆/M还能留下来顶住成绩的话，把K/S丢到一群俄罗斯双人滑里，立马消失不见。<o:p></o:p></P>
以下是引用DSC在2006-12-5 9:29:59的发言：
真是......我也承认K/S是有潜力，但有必要每次都把他们捧得那么高，外带顺便踩一下Z/Z(或是前些时候P/T)么？<?xml:namespace prefix = o />
首先，选手状况本来就会有起伏，这很正常；什么叫"吃老本"了？难道都不准选手摔的吗？即使是T巫婆/M那样像机器一样超级稳定的选手，还不是也摔过跳跃和托举？再来，K/S只比过一场大奖赛分站赛，运气好滑得算是相对干净了，谁又能保证他们以后就都不摔了？
只凭一场比赛就断定他们是未来的"重大威胁"、只看到他们完成了跳跃就说人家能力很强，会不会太草率了些？
O/S以前要线条有线条、要滑行有滑行，抛跳里安排throw 3flip、上过捻转四周、托举有创新、在规则还允许时自由滑用过三次3toe，甚至还击败过PetTik得到欧锦赛银牌，比现在K/S的难度动作跟成绩都好得多了吧？我记得那时论坛里还有筒子宣称O/S会在2006年以后"一统天下"，有更多的筒子认为他们将来会比Z/Z强，结果呢？
总之，个人认为K/S现在看起来是有希望，可那不过就是现下俄罗斯双人滑太差(PetTik除外)的结果；所以只要一出现滑得相对干净、节目风格也不会太boring的选手，就觉得他们很强了；要是以前G/G、M/D、B/S这样的选手还在，甚至是T巫婆/M还能留下来顶住成绩的话，把K/S丢到一群俄罗斯双人滑里，立马消失不见。
照你的说法，把Zhang/zhang 丢到一群俄罗斯双人G/G， M/D， B/S 里，不也立马消失不见？事务都是相对而言。K&S现在的所有技术难度并不亚于ZHANG/ZHANG。3toe+3toe 加上2A，完成的干干净净，3TWIST， 3THROW 也不差。ZHANG & ZHANG 已并无多少难度优势可言。只要K&S稳定发挥几次，PCS 上 7 也觉非难事。如果ZHANG & ZHANG 不保证跳跃稳定及上难度，真不知怎么同人家比，难道要凭那些可疑的高PCS？
再者，ZHANG&ZHANG 已经不只摔一次，而是自从奥运后次次摔。WORLDS，ZHANGHAO摔个3SAL，2A+3TOE完成的也异常勉强。SKATE CANADA， 摔在2A+3TOE，NHK，摔个3SAL。 他们的 2A+3TOE 从奥运后，就没有干净完成过一次。 行了，差不多得了，转载访谈给大家看是好事，别捧一个就贬一帮，更何况K/S只参加了大奖赛而已，还没拿到冠军，没有什么值得过分吹嘘的资本！看好是可以，很多人都看好他们，他们能有好成绩也是好事，但是现在妄下定论未免言之过早，川口03年的表现大家也是都看过的，现在换了舞伴，表现如何大家也都清楚，是好是坏大家心里也有基本有个谱，楼主这样越没头没脑地捧，越容易遭人反感！不过是一次大奖赛而已，再说不过是个铜牌，俄罗斯、中国、美国、加拿大、德国，没有一个是吃素的，一切要等世锦赛的时候再看分晓！ 以下是引用gtxys在2006-12-5 10:03:03的发言：
行了，差不多得了，转载访谈给大家看是好事，别捧一个就贬一帮，更何况K/S只参加了大奖赛而已，还没拿到冠军，没有什么值得过分吹嘘的资本！看好是可以，很多人都看好他们，他们能有好成绩也是好事，但是现在妄下定论未免言之过早，川口03年的表现大家也是都看过的，现在换了舞伴，表现如何大家也都清楚，是好是坏大家心里也有基本有个谱，楼主这样越没头没脑地捧，越容易遭人反感！不过是一次大奖赛而已，再说不过是个铜牌，俄罗斯、中国、美国、加拿大、德国，没有一个是吃素的
我并不是想贬低ZHANG & ZHANG，我是看他们不紧不慢的样，替他们着急。过了世锦赛，他们必须上抛四，最好将单跳改成更有把握的 3toe+3toe SEQ 外加 3Sal. <P>张张根本不需要上抛四，完全没有必要，就KS那样，练抛四是没底的事，就算练了抛四，在正式比赛中的成功率是多少？而且K那把年纪了，抛四一练，肯定得伤，不练抛四她还有点希望，练了抛四，基本没戏。</P> 以下是引用风铃在2006-12-5 10:57:31的发言：
张张根本不需要上抛四，完全没有必要，就KS那样，练抛四是没底的事，就算练了抛四，在正式比赛中的成功率是多少？而且K那把年纪了，抛四一练，肯定得伤，不练抛四她还有点希望，练了抛四，基本没戏。
我倒也不觉得K&S能把抛四练出来，不过你也是不凭客观事实，只凭个人好恶疯狂贬低K&S。 我看了 K 和她前任搭裆2002世锦赛的Video, 这一对绝对比上一搭好很多。而且，K这四年在没有固定舞伴的情况下，进步仍然非常大。02年，她的抛跳，TWIST 做的让人胆战心惊，如今搭档才6个月，完成的基本稳定。单跳更是不用说，02 年，她连个 3toe + 2toe SEQ 都作不好，如今的3oe +3toe 作得毫无问题。 我坚决主张 ZHANG/ZHANG 要上抛四，其码可以震住一大批蠢蠢欲动者，包括 TT/MM 的复出也得三思而行。没了难度和稳定性，ZHANG & ZHANG 凭他们现在的表现力，日子实在难过! <P><FONT color=#cc3333><STRONG>疯狂贬低K&S？<br><br></STRONG></FONT>我没觉得风铃对KS的评论到了“疯狂贬低”的地步，倒是楼主近期的一系列对庞/佟贬低的举动可以配得上“疯狂”，现在又轮到张/张，估计申赵要是再有个闪失，也马上可以提到楼主狂贬的议事日程上了。<br><br>还是那句话，KS在俄国站的表现有亮点，有竞争是好事，但对俄国的造神运动还不必这么如火如荼！</P>
<P>我有啥疯狂贬低KS的？K今年已经26了，她的身体还能支撑多久？她这些年换了多少搭档啊，没有一个默契的搭档，对于双人滑项目来说意味着什么？你不会不知道吧？KS现在还比不上当初的OS呢，奥伯塔斯因为训练不认真被Tamara抛弃，看看OS现在的状态吧。要是KS今年十八九一朵花似的，你说他们前途大大滴，俺也就姑且听之，都这把年纪了.........</P>
<P>我坚决反对张张上抛四，根本没有必要，他们现在的难度只要保持稳定性，足够了，要上也在单跳上想办法，根本没必要上抛四。warrior你知不知道抛四有多难？练习的时候有多容易受伤？何况难度并不是只有跳跃，把步法旋转的定级和加分搞定，比练抛四合算多了，专挑难走的道走有意思吗？有毛病才是真的。</P>
<P>不知道楼主有没有见过运动员练抛四，绝非上下嘴皮子一碰那么简单，我亲眼见过Z/Z练抛四，我实说，真是心疼，摔得触目惊心，受伤率极高，女伴的身体伤害和男伴的心理压力是非常大的！所以我绝不同意上抛四，你心疼K/S，我们也心疼Z/Z，Z/Z现在急需提高的，是对细节的把握，而不是动作难度的提高！Z/Z之所以落后于申赵，节目观赏性也不及庞佟，弊端在于节目太过粗糙，细节早就成功！</P>