许斌姝讨论专栏 - Powered by Discuz! Archiver

warrior 发表于 2006-11-26 12:36:00

许斌姝 & 张圆圆视频 on youtube

许斌姝 and 张圆圆 are my current favourite and I hope they can beat Mao & Kim and medal at world championships one day!! Binshu Xu video links:
 1. 2004 Junior Worlds <EMBED src=http://www.youtube.com/v/757QqDh2J8E width=425 height=350 type=application/x-shockwave-flash wmode="transparent"></EMBED> 
2. 2005 Junior Worlds <EMBED src=http://www.youtube.com/v/naJfQtRr0cY width=425 height=350 type=application/x-shockwave-flash wmode="transparent">
</EMBED> 3. 2005 Junior Grand Prix <EMBED src=http://www.youtube.com/v/zZig30g9_E0 width=425 height=350 type=application/x-shockwave-flash wmode="transparent"></EMBED> 
4. 2005 Nationals <EMBED src=http://www.youtube.com/v/nqFEDyr0UiY width=425 height=350 type=application/x-shockwave-flash wmode="transparent"></EMBED> 
5. 2006 Masters <EMBED src=http://www.youtube.com/v/pCZxf_7goC8 width=425 height=350 type=application/x-shockwave-flash wmode="transparent">
</EMBED> 6. 2006 Skate Canada SP: <EMBED src=http://www.youtube.com/v/0FkNN3Vttfg width=425 height=350 type=application/x-shockwave-flash wmode="transparent"></EMBED> 
7. 2006 Skate Canada LP: <EMBED src=http://www.youtube.com/v/mmxWuOxrz1w width=425 height=350 type=application/x-shockwave-flash wmode="transparent"></EMBED> 
8. 2006 Cup of China LP
 <EMBED src=http://www.youtube.com/v/9ZCKRgYs3WU width=425 height=350 type=application/x-shockwave-flash wmode="transparent"></EMBED> 
Caroline Zhang 
1. Jr. Grand Prix Taipei SP <EMBED src=http://www.youtube.com/v/A6HILxKSVck width=425 height=350 type=application/x-shockwave-flash wmode="transparent"></EMBED> 
2. Jr. Grand Prix Taipei LP <EMBED src=http://www.youtube.com/v/DU6azqxB4hY width=425 height=350 type=application/x-shockwave-flash wmode="transparent"></EMBED> 
3. Jr. Grand Prix Medal ceremony: <EMBED src=http://www.youtube.com/v/FvOjJSQ8TN0 width=425 height=350 type=application/x-shockwave-flash wmode="transparent"></EMBED> 
4. 2005 Jr. Nationals ABC feature
 <EMBED src=http://www.youtube.com/v/Ardeq7-36S4 width=425 height=350 type=application/x-shockwave-flash wmode="transparent"></EMBED>

warrior 发表于 2006-11-26 12:40:00

Sorry, the layout is a mess.

wenwenyin 发表于 2006-11-26 19:31:00

还有一站比赛,现在她排名是13,等日本站比赛结束后她最好也就是15名了.刘艳更惨,最后一名啊~~

lililourong 发表于 2006-11-26 23:33:00

与顶尖选手的差距还是很大啊．

飞天神猪 发表于 2006-11-27 10:06:00

大家胃口都很大啊,都巴不得小许明天就可以重现陈露的风采,跟浅田,金研儿她们一争高下啊.说实在的,我也有这样的幻想了.
小许底子是相当可以的,如果现在是李明珠来带的话,她肯定进步会快好多.国内教练真是青黄不接啊.双人滑教练除了姚槟以外,不知道还有谁?单人滑教练自李明珠,刘洪云以后再也没有像样的了.冰舞则从来没有好的教练.真是令人心焦啊.
不过小许毕竟已经带来了希望.大奖赛上她的成绩已经渐显中国女单新领军人物的气势了.当然争金夺银还是说不上,但她肯定会比方丹,刘艳出色.
今年最让人大跌眼镜的是,我们的"稳定刘"怎么会一落千丈啊.才滑出来就又回去了.给小许信心,让小许接班也别这么谦让啊!

皓皓独淑 发表于 2006-11-30 16:18:00

我一直有个问题
刘艳为什么分那么低？分是丢在哪的啊？

皓皓独淑 发表于 2006-11-30 16:19:00

1 Miki ANDO 28 2 Julia SEBESTYEN 28 3 Yu-Na KIM 26 4 Sarah MEIER 24 5 Joannie ROCHETTE 24 6 Kimmie MEISSNER 24 ---------------------------------------------现在的前6名 10 Fumie SUGURIJPN 13 11 Yukari NAKANO 13 14 Mao ASADA 11 --------------------------------------这个是只比了一站的，都有希望

皓皓独淑 发表于 2006-11-30 16:20:00

以后继续给小许加油~！！！！

柯钦发表于 2006-11-30 17:33:00

我决定中国选手的分数那么低有很大一部分原因是在编排上,其实小许和刘燕,在旋转还有燕式这些项目上面能力还是可以的，但是编排的等级都特别底,难道中国的编排教练都不看打分细则的吗?

warrior 发表于 2006-12-2 08:34:00

许斌姝的燕式和旋转定级问题

许斌姝的燕式和旋转安理说应该非常好，她的所有燕式和旋转都有能力达到四级，但她的定级却在加拿大和中国大奖赛吃了大亏。有一个北美业余‘专家’详细分析了小许的燕式和旋转定级问题。我对这些计术细节也搞不太懂，但读完这些分析后，感觉到许斌姝的教练及编舞的水平太差，他们对规则一点都不懂，有很多旋转变化根本就是浪费。我希望你们如果谁同国家队有联系的化，请将以下的分析转达过去。小许是个非常有希望的选手，她的确需要好的教练。另外不知道你们谁手中有小许中国站和加拿大短节目的视频，请贴连结供对比用。

Questions:
<DIV >You are a technical expert, so maybe you can help me out on this. Just want to give you an example about a new-comer - Binshu Xu since i paid some attention to her performance at both 'Skate Canada' and 'Cup of China'. This is her SP at 'Skate Canada': <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FkNN3Vttfg" target="_blank" >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FkNN3Vttfg</A> She has excellent flexibility and generally very good spins and spirals. She did exactly the same elements at both events. Here's how those non-jump elements are graded at both events. 'Skate Canada' 'Cup of China' FCSp 2 FCSp 3 SpSq 4 SpSq 4 CCoSp2CCoSp 3 SISt 1 SISt 1 LSp2 LSp3 She has excellent spin quality, especially her fly camel spin, just gorgeous. But all her spins were graded a notch lower at 'Skate Canada' than 'Cup of China'. I don't think she somehow magically upgraded all of her spins since those two events were just one week apart. It's a crime to give her a level 2 spin, at the same time, give Joannie's shaky spin a level 4, in my opinion.</DIV>
<DIV > </DIV>
<DIV >ANSWER:</DIV>
<DIV >There's one thing you're not paying attention to: ALL spin variations, positions, and edge changes must rotate at least TWO times to receive any feature credit. That was her biggest problem. The second, would be failing to know the rules. Flying Camel Spin She plans: regular flying camel entrace + back camel variation w/ arms behind back + upside-down back camel variation + inside edge back camel + back donut spin Features Earned: 3 = Level 3 You're only allowed two variations on a flying camel, so her final position is worthless Skate Canada: Level 2 earned (her first variation was short of two revolutions and the final one can't count) Cup of China: Level 3 earned (all features had sufficient revolutions) Change-Foot Combination Spin She plans: front camel + outside edge front camel + Biellmann + back sit + inside edge back sit + back I-spin Features Earned: 4 = Level 4 Skate Canada: both of the changes of edges were short of revolutions, so she lost two features and received a Level 2 Cup of China: Level 3 earned; she changed the Biellman to a catchfoot layback, I'll tell you why in a mionute, the inside edge sit was not performed adequately (she lost the edge then went back in), so no credit Layback Spin She plans: classic layback + dropped-leg layback + sideways leaning spin + catchfoot layback + Biellmann Features Earned: 4 = Level 4 Skate Canada: Level 2 earned; the catchfoot layback was the only position short on revolutions (though the first two variations could go either way -- the caller must have given her credit for overalapping positions - honestly I would have only given her a Level 1); The Biellman doesn't count at all because you're only allowed ONE Biellman in the short program, and she's already done it Cup of China: Level 3 earned only the sideays leaning spin was short of revolutions</DIV>
<DIV > </DIV>
<DIV >Thanks for your forensic analysis. A

warrior 发表于 2006-12-2 09:08:00

If this so-called 'expert' is correct, there are at least two serious wasted variations besides some execution problems(short of rotations).
In her flying camel spin, the last variation 'back donut spin' is worthless;
In her Layback Spin, the last 'bielmann' is also worthless since she's not allowed to repeat 'bielman' twice in short program and she's already done this in the prior 'Change-Foot Combination Spin'.
I don't really know whether this 'expert' is really onto sth, but if he/she is correct, binshu xu's coach and chereographer was commiting a crime!

tobyid 发表于 2006-12-2 09:42:00

我来尝试做个翻译，希望大家指正：
1:所有的变化，包括姿势变化和用刃变化都至少要做2圈[后来发现这里指的是某种变化在到位后要至少做2圈]来获得承认。（个人理解，小许有些变化圈数不足，导致不被获得承认。）
2：不懂得规则
A：FLYING CAMEL(燕式旋转？) 节目打算：1正常进入方式的普通燕式+2背部姿势的变化（把手由张开改为背起来）+3把背起的手举起做出变化+4转换内刃的燕式+5躬身姿势
从姿势上讲2/3/5都是姿势的变化，人家FLYING CAMEL4级要求只能做2个姿势变化，你多做了一个，白做 
从用刃上讲有2个用刃的变化就至少要有3个用刃的不同姿势，举例（前外-前内-前外），小许的1/4是刃的变化，所以只有一种用刃变化。 
总评：2个姿势变化1个用刃变化。3个一共，定为3级，如果周数不足可能被降为2级。
错误点评：没做好数学计算，上4级别一共需要4个变化，规则要求只能做2个姿势变化，另2个需要考用刃变化来凑啊！
B：换足联合旋转 本来打算：1正向燕式+2前外燕式+3提刀躬身+4内刃蹲转+5提到旋转 
姿势变化上：燕式-贝而曼-蹲转-提刀，哎又多做了一个姿势 
用刃变化上：前外-后内-前外（估计这个是提刀的刃） 
总评：这个旋转估计是重心失去的严重，导致用刃的转换无法获得承认！这里的提刀旋转有为定为贝而曼的嫌疑，估计是提刀高度的问题吧！
C：躬身旋转 本来打算：传统躬身+把足放下的躬身+侧躬身+提刀躬身+贝而曼 
姿势变化上：这个没有用刃的变化，4个姿势的变化 
小许在提刀的时候提起时转了1圈，到位时转了1圈，但是要在姿势到位的情况下至少保持2圈，这个就不符合啦！
总评：错误的概念，提刀就是好，满足条件就行，太多提刀也是嫌疑点啊！ 
这个牛人提到小许做了2个贝而曼，自己觉得没啊！
总之拙劣的编排害死人啊！

warrior 发表于 2006-12-2 10:01:00

More information from that 'expert'. 
The youtube link to binshu xu's short program at 'Skate Canada'.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FkNN3Vttfg" target="_blank" >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FkNN3Vttfg</A>
The youtube link to binshu xu's short program at 'Cup of China'
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzKq-Ab83eg" target="_blank" >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzKq-Ab83eg</A>

Please compare the difference. and Read what the 'expert' said above.
Als the following opinions from this 'expert'.
Question:
The coach and chereographer are really incompetent. It's such a shame since I really think Binshu Xu has some excellent quality in her spins and spirals. In my opinion, the Chinese chereographer was committing a crime to let Binshu Xu waste two variations in those precious time. She definitely has the ability to upgrade all her spins to level 4, or at least level 3. In her long program, they also wasted a lot of time doing jumping and her spirals were only graded level I due to the same chereography reason.

Answer:
Well, it's clear she was told about the Biellmann -- since she took one out for Cup of China. But I don't know why she hasn't fixed the flying spin. Here's Binshu Xu's Cup of China SP: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzKq-Ab83eg" target="_blank" >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzKq-Ab83eg</A>

Question:
Based on your opinion, at 'Cup of China', since she took out the first bielmen, the bielmen of the last layback should be counted. And she has the potential to upgrade this layback to level 4 if rotations are sufficient? Is my understanding correct? I looked at her protocols, she actually got a level 4 layback in her long program at 'Skate Canada' but was downgraded to level 3(or 2?) at 'Cup of China'. Regarding her level 1 spirals in the long program, I believe it's not intended for another level 4 although she has the ability. Since her coach/chereographer is busy arranging all sorts of triples for her(attempted 7 triples and landed 6 at 'Skate Canada' plus a 2a-2a SEQ.), there's little time left for a level 4 spirals. This is a ridiculous arrangement since triple jumps are definitely riskier than a level 4 spiral seq.

On Binshu Xu's Spirals:
She actually has a really nice spiral sequence. She earned a level 4 in the short program. She does: RFO Biellmann spiral with Change of Edge to RFI Biellmann spiral RFI Y-spiral RBO fan spiral LFI Biellmann spiral That gives her 4 features for a Level 4: 1. Total split position in a spiral (Y-spiral) 2. change of edge 3. 3 spiral positions on both feet, including backward inside 4. unsupported spiral w/ leg sideways or forwards (fan spiral) At the Cup of China long program, she left out the RFI Y-spiral, and did not hold the RFI Biellmann spiral out of the change of edge for the minimum requirement of three seconds (for "change of edge" credit, each edge must be held for three seconds). Likewise, she did not hold the LBI Biellmann spiral for three seconds. As such, the only feature she got credit for was the fan spiral, since it was the only one she held for the minimum three seconds. So she received a Level 1.

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tobyid 发表于 2006-12-2 10:07:00

楼上的，她的教练已经是国内比较好的啦！不过估计她教练英文一般，再加上和国际上的接触很少，造成了这样的封闭情况！
关于跳跃的安排，大家讨论过很多啦，她那个外点3+外点3的连续跳实在是没意思！

tobyid 发表于 2006-12-2 10:13:00

这个音乐的节奏太快，小许总是有些赶音乐的感觉，造成动作结构仓促，这节目明年一定要换才行啊！

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许斌姝 & 张圆圆 视频 on youtube

许斌姝的燕式和旋转定级问题

许斌姝 & 张圆圆视频 on youtube