川口&斯米尔诺夫 (13赛季节目曝光)

MS,网通看YOUTUBE更好一些？？？？？？

1. 以下是引用风铃在2006-11-26 13:02:10的发言：
   
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3. 我知道不用下载，但是国内在线观看 youtube非常卡，就象看连环画一样，并且我现在还在上传视频，更没有带宽可以看这个了。
   
4. JEFF比任何人都应该拿这个分数的PCS,PCS不是用来再为跳跃打一次分的，他的基本技术，他的步法进入，他的连接，他的节目编排，他对音乐的理解和表达，就应该拿这样的分数，不应该拿PCS高分的是普鲁申科。
   
5. 我想你如果不懂的话，需要多看。

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Based on your opinion, zhang/zhang could only get 6s in their PCS, I guess. PCS is still a corrupt tool for judges to hold up certain skaters they prefer. Unchanged high PCS only encourages lazy, or less talented skaters such as Jeff Buttle to only try less difficult stuff.
Yes, Jeff's basics are better than most skaters, but the PCS reward is too much. Any male skater who can not do a quad does not deserve medal of any color, in my opinion.

现在的男单里能找出几个能在一套自由滑里漂亮地完成两个4周的选手？~

不要说谁能做，谁不能做~~在练习时JEFF和WEIR都能做，包括LYSCEK~~但在比赛里真正能完成的有几个？JUBERT状态好的时候可以~~小蓝是顾了4周顾不了三周半~~

至于张张的PCS，也是这个赛季才上7.0的，以前还不是7分一下徘徊~而且本来就有人抱怨张张的PCS打得过高~~~

我从来对于PCS的具体分数不感兴趣，因为有的裁判跟你一样乱打一气，我要看就是排的席位分，JEFF的PCS排在第一位都是无可厚非的。你也知道是依你之见......

我建议你去好好看的一下具体的规则，理解一下

看完他们的LP之后总的感觉 他们还是比较JUNIOR从技术到表演 另外男伴稍微弱一点 总的感受就是这样 他们将来能什么样除了看他们下两个赛季进步幅度还要看会不会有其他新秀涌现 现在说他们奥运会可以争夺奖牌还太早 上个赛季S/S被吹上天了 大奖赛的时候分打得也很高 但是奥运会和世锦赛的时候两个分都不行 裁判给他们的定级 GOE加分 PCS的分都不那么理想了

如果Jeff都叫less talented skaters such as Jeff Buttle ，那偶还真不知道现役的有哪些个选手能被称为talented的了……

1. 以下是引用非砚在2006-11-26 14:11:45的发言：
   
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3. 如果Jeff都叫less talented skaters such as Jeff Buttle ，那偶还真不知道现役的有哪些个选手能被称为talented的了……

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Brian Jourbert and Lambiel are certainly talented skaters. Shen & Zhao are exceptional. Just my personal preference. I prefer skaters who can do hard stuff first, then gradually develop their unique style or 'artistry'. Mao Asada, Yu Na Kim. Zhang & Zhang. Even Binshu Xu, I love them all.Sandhu can also be called talented skater, but I'm never a fan of him. I don't like skaters who can not perform at critical time. Jeff Buttle is the sort of 'lazy' skaters I dislike the most. They have no athletic ability but only want to count on 'artistic' tricks to win medals.

1. 以下是引用不能不闹在2006-11-26 13:38:04的发言：
   
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3. 看完他们的LP之后总的感觉 他们还是比较JUNIOR从技术到表演 另外男伴稍微弱一点 总的感受就是这样 他们将来能什么样除了看他们下两个赛季进步幅度还要看会不会有其他新秀涌现 现在说他们奥运会可以争夺奖牌还太早 上个赛季S/S被吹上天了 大奖赛的时候分打得也很高 但是奥运会和世锦赛的时候两个分都不行 裁判给他们的定级 GOE加分 PCS的分都不那么理想了

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Where's the video link? I'm dying to watch.

1. 以下是引用tobyid在2006-11-26 11:08:19的发言：
   
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3. 觉得问题没楼上的说这么严重，如果PT吧抛跳放到后半段做，依靠他们的稳定性是会有GOE和规则加分的，估计怎么也会多个3分左右吧！再说3 TIWST现在P的起跳方式没变，如果改成前外也会有加分！3T+3T seq=6.8, 2A=3.3;加一起就10。1；PT 3T=4 2A+2T=4。6分，加一起8。6分，现在看PT还是有技术优势的，不过没ZZ明显而已！
   
4. 如果P的体力能好些，把2A+2T放到后面做，获得点加分，那跳跃差距就更小啦！
   
5. K/S的抛跳还是不太行，短节目女的有HANG ON的嫌疑，长节目有小的错误，不觉得他们有能力把抛跳都放到后面做！
   
6. 不过PT要加油才是，如果K/S有两种3周，P/T才是真的有了大麻烦的！

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NO. Pang's every recent 3toe except the one at 2006 world championships has been downgraded to 2toe. You can go to www.isu.org and search the protocol.
This means, PT got almost 0 for their 3t in the short program at 'Cup of China'. Their jump layout in LP was 2a+2a and 3t, 3t was again downgraded to 2t, which gave them almost 0 again due to GOE deduction. Look at protocols yourself, they lost almost 4 points in short program at 'Cup of China'. S&S's 3toe was also downgraded in sp at 'Cup of China', that's why there were marked even worse. But they did an excellent 3toe in sp at 'Cup of Russia', so their score shot up to almost 64 points.
I predict 3toe is 'do or die' for team pang & tong in the next few years. Don't expect them to have a loop even a 2loop. It is extremely rare for a pair team to have three types of sbs jumps, that's why zhang &zhang's sbs jumps are unmatchable.
Link to 'Cup of China' pairs short program protocol:
http://www.isufs.org/results/gpchn06/gpchn06_Pairs_SP_Scores.pdf
Pang & Tong got 0.83 points for their downgraded 3toe, shen & zhao got 5 points for their clean 3toe; s&S got 0.54 for their downgraded 3toe;
long program protocol
http://www.isufs.org/results/gpchn06/gpchn06_Pairs_FS_Scores.pdf
pang & tong got 0.76 for their 2toe and 3.14 for their downgraded 2a+2a SEQ, total sbs jump score: 3.9 points
shen & zhao got 6.1 for their 3t+2t and 4.1 for their 2a, total sbs jump score: 11 points
s & s got 7.2 points for their 3t+3t SEQ and 0.64 for their 1a, total sbs jump score: 7.8 points.
pang & tong lost to shen & zhao by 11 points in sbs jumps alone; lost to s & s by 4 points in sbs jumps alone.

什么也不用说了，如果没有拿到180左右总分的实力，就不要拿出来说能拿世界锦赛的奖牌了~~

其他再怎么假设，再怎么如果都没用~~楼主对K/S的假设和如果都是往好处想，而对P/T的却是往坏处想~这样一来这场讨论根本就没什么意义~

楼上的说实话不想提这事，06奥运的时候俄搞了个只能用COMBINATION不能用SEQ的新规则，搞的ZHAO受伤，我不确认他们还会不会搞出第二个来，我是按照06奥运时的规则算的，在允许SEQ的情况下，PT的跳跃理论分肯定与KS更接近；因为2A肯定比2T来的多不少分数！

3T的问题大家解释了很多了，P最近身体不好，几乎没进行正常训练，不过奥运上好像是CLEAN的，也不怀疑经过加强后LP至少会有一个CLEAN的3T；2LOOP是我随便说的，不过也不觉得PT练不出来！

楼上的按照PROTOCOL的分析方法值得借鉴，P/T的3T也确实是一个关键的地方！还是慢慢发展看吧，如果真的想在10奥运夺冠，P又能顺利恢复健康，方法总会有的！

谁想到ZZ会做2A+3T的COMBINATION呢，我还一直以为他们只能做SEQ的呢！

再算笔小帐，如果PT单跳不行，LP全用2A，就是2A单跳，2A+2A的SEQ，3。3+5。28=8。58，也不比现在少太多！毕竟3T是4分，2A是3。3！总还是有办法的，不过编排上要加强，甚至要重点加强是毋庸置疑的！

1. 以下是引用tobyid在2006-11-26 11:34:24的发言：
   
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3. 楼上的说实话不想提这事，06奥运的时候俄搞了个只能用COMBINATION不能用SEQ的新规则，搞的ZHAO受伤，我不确认他们还会不会搞出第二个来，我是按照06奥运时的规则算的，在允许SEQ的情况下，PT的跳跃理论分肯定与KS更接近；因为2A肯定比2T来的多不少分数！
   
4. 3T的问题大家解释了很多了，P最近身体不好，几乎没进行正常训练，不过奥运上好像是CLEAN的，也不怀疑经过加强后LP至少会有一个CLEAN的3T；2LOOP是我随便说的，不过也不觉得PT练不出来！
   
5. 楼上的按照PROTOCOL的分析方法值得借鉴，P/T的3T也确实是一个关键的地方！还是慢慢发展看吧，如果真的想在10奥运夺冠，P又能顺利恢复健康，方法总会有的！
   
6. 谁想到ZZ会做2A+3T的COMBINATION呢，我还一直以为他们只能做SEQ的呢！

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Olympic long program protocol link:
http://www.isufs.org/results/owg2006/OWG06_Pairs_FS_Scores.pdf Pang & Tong's 3t in short was clean, but in long it's been graded as a 2a+1t and a 2t, get your calculator, you'll know how many points they've lost. That's why they did not medal.
As to not allowing 'combination' at Olympics, I am not sure if it's true. The protocols also tell us S&S used the exact 3toe+3toe SEQ and got 6.83 points. Was that a myth?
Don't get me wrong. I want every Chinese pair on the podium, but truly worried about pang & tong. I am actually very sympathizing with their situation.

1. 以下是引用tobyid在2006-11-26 11:39:17的发言：
   
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3. 再算笔小帐，如果PT单跳不行，LP全用2A，就是2A单跳，2A+2A的SEQ，3。3+5。28=8。58，也不比现在少太多！毕竟3T是4分，2A是3。3！总还是有办法的，不过编排上要加强，甚至要重点加强是毋庸置疑的！

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They can not repeat three 2A. That's NOT allowed. What they can do is either
2a+2a SEQ plus a 2toe, they seemed to use this backup at 'Cup of china' or
2a+2t combo plus a 2toe.
In sp, they can use 2a instead of a 3toe, that's actually my suggestion.
By using easier jump layout, they can narrow the difficulty gap. But to get 3toe downgraded is really very very costly. You got almost 0 for 3toe.

花样滑冰是一项运动没错，但是并不代表着只有跳跃是技术，其他不是，即使KS的3T每次成功，就他们那样的燕式抛跳和旋转，也称不上大师级的。何况要拿他们来跟中国三对选手比，我觉得没啥可比性，两对世界冠军就不必跟他们比了，根本不是同一量级的，没拿世界冠军的张张，要说稳定，比他们强得多，艺术表现大家一样，哈哈哈哈，阿三就不要说阿四了。